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Community Notebooks: The Bio-toilet Saga
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Bio-Toilet Correspondence 1

28-May-2010 [71]

• Composting Toilet Permission At Playground, April 25, 2005 to July 1 2006

Table of Contents

Related Biotoilet files

Request from Georgie Donais to Parks, Forestry and Recreation Technical Services Manager Bob Crump, to instal a regular (flush) toilet, April 25, 2005:

Since we are already accessing the sanitary sewer, we have been wondering how much extra work it would be to include a toilet rough-in and attendant sink along with the other plumbing. If the main plumbing is about 10 feet away from the source of the water, the toilet would be placed 5 to 10 feet further, in the same line as the first. The bathroom sink would be directly behind the main sinks, on the other side of the same wall.

Can you tell me if this is possible, and if so, what kind of extra expense we are looking at? If you need more details, let me know. Thank you so much for your help!

Response from Parks, Forestry and Recreation Technical Services Manager Bob Crump, May 5, 2005

Once you start talking about adding in a toilet, you may be getting into territory where a building permit is required. In any event, Tom would have to price this job based on a significant excavation to access the sanitary sewer pipe and to tee into the pipe directly, which would add significantly to your costs. It also isn't something we want to take on with everything else on our plates.

request from Georgie Donais to Parks and Recreation manager James Dann, February 28 2006

Last year you and I talked about the possibility of a composting toilet at the south end of Dufferin Grove Park. With the research and money required, it was more than I could tackle with the last project. Now, someone who was very impressed with the cob wall has stepped forward and offered to cover the cost of a proper public-space-appropriate composting toilet at our park.

I am wondering if you would still be interested in granting permission for the composting toilet idea. In addition to the donated toilet, I would pursue outside grant funding to pay for materials and my time, and would only be looking for help with sand and gravel from the city, and a very small amount of electrical work (one circuit from the event panel to the toilet).

People keep asking me what project I am going to have for them this year. I'm imagining that a toilet facility (with a cob exterior) could form the centerpiece of several new cob sculptures. They'd be off to the west of the last project, where people don't tend to hang out now, but close enough to the playground to be convenient. Public Health would be involved to make sure all bylaws are being followed, of course.

Let me know what you think of my proposal. I look forward to talking to you.

response from James Dann February 28 2006

I'd love to see some sketches of what you are proposing. It should make things more straightforward when dealing with public health/etc. In principle I would be very supportive of the composting toilet going in and seeing it happen. Is there any possibility of rolling in the proposed electrical with the toilet??

I have included Tino and Sandy in my reply as they'll be crucial in making things happen as well. Sandy is the new parks manager and would need to see and approve any plans prior to work taking place.

It was a very positive result last year and I have little doubt that could be replicated heading into this spring and summer.

Response from Georgie Donais, February 28, 2006

Sounds good. I will work on some drawings and get back to you on that in the next couple of weeks. Looking forward to it!

response from new Parks manager Sandy Straw, March 7 2006

Hi Georgie, I would be pleased to review your ideas and plans...would you prefer a site meeting so we can get the true picture!! Let me know

response from Georgie Donais, March 7, 2006

Sandy, Thanks for your email. I'll firm up some ideas and get some drawings together. Meeting at the park sounds great! I'll send you a note in a couple of weeks when I've got the stuff ready to review. Talk to you then!

request for James Dann, March 10, 2006

James, I am in the process of applying for some money from the Parks & Trees Foundation, and I see that I again need a letter of permission to include with the application. I have last year's here on file, and with your permission, I can just update it. Is that ok with you? Here's what it would look like. Georgie

March 13, 2006

To Whom It May Concern:

Please be advised that the community-led natural building project planned for Dufferin Grove Park this summer has the support of this office and permission to go ahead.

If you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact my office.

James Dann

Response from James Dann, March 10 2006

looks fine to me

Playground census for potential toilet use, from Georgie, May 28 2006

Here is my census of the playground and environs as at Sunday, May 28, 2006 at 3pm:

Sandpit - Kids: 38 Adults: 29

Wading Pool - Kids: 16 Adults: 21

Cob wall - Kids: 5 Adults: 13

Volleyball - Kids: 7 Adults: 7

Tetherball - Kids: 3 Adults: 1

Playground - Kids: 37 Adults: 30

Totals: Kids: 106 Adults: 101

Conditions: Sunny and warm, 25 celsius Wading pool fountain on but no water in pool Foodcart operational

Request from Georgie to Sandy Straw, May 28, 2006

I was just down at Dufferin Grove Park today, enjoying the weather, as was most of the rest of the neighbourhood, it seemed! I am hoping that you have some time to meet me this week to get talking about my composting toilet facilities idea, as the time is coming to get started, if permission for the project is granted.

On other fronts related to this project, I am happy to let you know that I have so far received one of the grants I applied for, and also have a corporate sponsor on board. I am also planning a trip for next week to St. Lawrence Islands National Park to see one of these composting units being installed.

I look forward to meeting with you!

Response from Sandy Straw, May 29 2006

hi Georgie...Jutta and I were just talking about this on Friday would you be available Thursday morning around 9 or 9:30?

Site meeting, June 2, 2006
E-mail from Georgie Donais to Sandy Straw, June 7 2006

Just a quick note to let you know that we found out about our Toronto Arts Council grant; we received the full amount! This is to help pay for the labour to create the building surrounding the toilet unit.

I spent some time at the St. Lawrence National Park this weekend, checking out new and existing Phoenix composting toilet installations, and they met every expectation regarding good design and complete lack of odour. I also got a list of officials who have had these toilets installed at their national or provincial parks or camps. I will forward them to you shortly so you can check references.

Talk to you soon!

Response from Sandy Straw, June 7 2006

Hi Sounds good. I must leave the country unexpectedly -- family emergency so will be gone a couple of weeks Please share this with Peter Leiss and David Chapman as they carry on while I am gone

Georgie Donais to Recreation supervisor Tino DeCastro, June 8 2006

Tino, I got this from Sandy Straw yesterday

response from Tino DeCastro June 8 2006

Hi, they have been copied on this email........reply to all should work...please keep me in the loop. Thanks

From Georgie Donais to park supervisors Peter Leiss and Dave Chapman June 8 2006

Peter and David,

I understand from Sandy that you are going to be carrying on with the Dufferin Grove Park composting toilet project. I want to let you know that I went last weekend to see some composting toilets that were being installed in St. Lawrence National Park. I got to speak with the toilet supplier at length, and also got a chance to use some previously installed toilets. (I can attest to the fact that they were, in fact, odourless!)

I am attaching the public facilities guide for the Phoenix toilet as a PDF file for your perusal. In the next day or two, I will be sending references for you to call from national and provincial parks that have these toilets installed.

Talk to you soon!

response from Peter Leiss, June 12

Thanks for your email. I will be away on vacation from June 8th to June 20th. I will reply to your email when I return. If your request is an emergency please contact Dave Chapman

from Georgie Donais to Dave Chapman June 13 2006


I understand that Peter is on vacation for the moment, so I'll direct my correspondence to you while copying the others.

As part of the approvals process for the composting toilet project at Dufferin Grove Park, you will likely want to talk to officials at other locations to see how these types of toilets have done at their parks. I am waiting on permission from a few more references, but as I am anxious to keep the approvals process moving, I would like to send these to you now; you will find them at the bottom of this email.

I am happy to report that the Toronto Arts Council has granted us the full $10,000 we applied for, and additional funding for the project is also in place. The toilet we are looking at installing is the Phoenix 201 PF (Public Facilities). I am including some pictures from my recent trip to see some of these units at St. Lawrence National Park. Our building will be different from these, but the toilet unit will be the same one.

When Sandy, Peter and Chris met in Dufferin Grove Park with me, Jutta and Mayssan, we talked about toilet location, usage, odor and leachate. I had mentioned that there were ways to deal with the leachate besides a leaching bed. However, the toilet supplier, Michael Kerfoot, said that most of the parks and camps he's worked with in Ontario have chosen the leachate bed as the most straightforward way to deal with excess liquid, after seeing the data on its safety. I will forward this information to you shortly.

I would like to set up a meeting at your earliest convenience to briefly talk further about this project. Building season is upon us, and if the project does receive permission, then work must begin shortly.

I am free the rest of this week to meet you at your convenience; would you be interested in coming to the park? (I am away most of next week.) I am available both by email and by phone. I look forward to hearing from you!

request from Georgie, June 14, 2006

Tino, I am a little anxious to move forward on the toilet file and I haven't heard back from Dave Chapman yet. I'd like to confirm that he has gotten my messages and whether he is able to meet this week. Is there anything else I should be doing to get this rolling?

Response from Tino DeCastro, June 14, 2006

I think he got your messages. I will try to reach him today. Give me a call later.

Response from Parks supervisor Dave Chapman, June 14 2006

Sorry but I did get your message re the toilets. I am afraid I am not able to meet this week and I will be away next week. Peter Leiss will be returning on Tuesday the 20th and I have included him in this message. I will be leaving him an additional message to make sure and call you as soon as he can to arrange for a meeting.

Questions from Jutta Mason to Recreation supervsior Tino DeCastro and Georgie Donais, June 14 2006

Tino, since the grant has come through and summer is next week, I think it would be good to follow up on Georgie's question "Is there anything else I should be doing to get this rolling?" Are there building permits to check into? Public health? Does the city want to put out a "green news release" saying that this composting toilet is another interesting ecological step in a City park? Etc.

Georgie, the big park oven didn't need a building permit because the footprint was under the minimum size. What's the footprint here?

From Georgie Donais to Ben Heywood, public health inspector, June 15 2006

Mr. Heywood,

My name is Georgie Donais, and I led the creation of the earthen courtyard wall in the south end of Dufferin Grove Park last year. I am currently in conversation with city management regarding permission to place a commercial public facility composting toilet in the park this summer. As part of this process, I wanted to provide you with any information that you might require on the project.

I am attaching a description of the project [links on bottom of this page] for your reference, in PDF format. I will send the Phoenix Public Facilities Installation Guide under separate cover. I look forward to talking or meeting with you to discuss this proposal further.

request from Georgie Donais to Tino DeCastro, June 16, 2006

I am wondering if I can still call Dan Popadiuk and request sand and gravel and the like. We need some sand for replastering the current cob, and we'll need a fair bit of material if this toilet project gets going.

From Georgie to Kevin Beaulieu, assistant to Ward 18 Councillor Adam Giambrone, June 19, 2006

I wanted to let you know about a proposal that is in the works for a composting toilet at Dufferin Grove Park this summer. I have applied for and have received funding for my proposal (information attached), and am in discussion with city officials about permission to go ahead with the project.

As part of the process of moving this proposal forward, we will be convening a public meeting around the issue. The meeting will be held on Sunday, June 25 at 3pm, down by the cob wall. A poster is attached for your reference.

It would be great to see the councillor there at the meeting, if he is available. I am also happy to answer any questions you or he might have about the project in advance of the meeting.

Public meeting notice for June 25, 2006 about proposed cob toilet, posted in park and on e-mail lists one week before

From the e-mail list:

All: I wanted to let you know about a proposal that is in the works combining earthen building and a public facilities approved composting toilet system for Dufferin Grove Park this summer. I am currently in discussion with city officials about permission to go ahead with this project.

In order to get your feedback on the proposal, we will be convening a public meeting around the issue. The meeting will be held on Sunday, June 25 at 3pm, down by the cob wall. An information package and a poster is available for your reference.

I look forward to seeing you there!

Georgie Donais

From Georgie Donais to Sandy Straw, Peter Leiss and Dave Chapman, June 26 2006

We had a public meeting yesterday (Sunday, June 25), about my proposal to put a composting toilet in Dufferin Grove Park. It was attended by 15 - 20 people, consisting both of neighbours and park attendees, some regular, some occasional. I gave a brief summary of why I was proposing a composting toilet in the park, where I think it would go, and how it works. People had questions about possible smell, educational opportunities, safety, possible overuse, maintenance plan, and building security. We then walked around the proposed site and discussed its placement. By the end of the meeting, all had satisfied their curiosity and were interested in seeing the proposal go ahead.

Building season is getting into full swing, and I am anxious to make sure there is enough time left to complete the project. If there's anything I can do to facilitate permission for this project, please let me know.

Thanks for your help!

From Peter Leiss, June 26 2006

Thanks for the update

From Jutta Mason to Tino DeCastro, June 27 2006

A little more information about the composting toilet project, to follow up on Georgie's meeting report: -- besides the people who actually attended the Sunday meeting, I canvassed a much larger number of playground users all week prior to the meeting, as did your staff, just to check out how they felt about the idea. As expected, most of them said "it's about time, we've been asking for a toilet near the playground for years." Which is true, only that a plumbed toilet would cost more like $100,000 I guess, since the plumbing would have to be separate from the wading pool plumbing. So this is a much cheaper solution, at last.

Dufferin Mall Youth Services has incorporated work on the cob toilet house into their youth program for the summer. Also, Toronto Community Housing is bringing their new greening manager to the park this week, along with other managers from there, to meet with Georgie and others to pick our brains. Also, we're trying to see if we can build on some recent contacts with homeless outreach workers, to welcome a few homeless people as participants in building with cob. Maybe down the road, they can replicate a bit of what homeless people do in Portland Oregon....

The work needs to begin on July 3, since it will take all summer to build this with free volunteer labour. As far as I know, Georgie's recent thinking is that the actual toilet structure would not be sunk into the ground much or at all. However, the foundation of the surrounding cob housing would have to be dug out the same depth as for the cob wall. Everything is hand-dug and therefore low-risk for damaging a cable, but it would still be good if Tom Feeney could come and do a quick stakeout this week. -- the City ought to contribute sand and gravel again this year, since they are getting a toilet for hardly any money.

Please let me know what more needs to be done to be ready for a July 3 start-up. The composting toilet unit itself will arrive around the middle of July so everything has to be ready for it (i.e the foundation has to be all done). I'm sorry that it's all so urgent now but as you know, Georgie has been working a long time to get all the ducks in order and now is the time. It will be a lovely project.

From Sandy Straw June 27, 2006

Sounds like we are moving along.. Thanks for the extra consultations Jutta Peter Leiss will hook up with Tom as full stake outs not just water MUST be undertaken before things proceed. PETER pls get the stake out process stated today. JUTTA we will need the final plans for the toilet in detail as to final depth, width height and materials then we should be ready to get started Thanks to all for your cooperation and coordination.

Response from Georgie Donais June 28, 2006

Thank you for keeping the ball rolling, Sandy.

In terms of stakeout, the location that had been agreed upon by meeting participants and staff has changed from our original tour of the site. The spot that has been agreed upon is north of the electrical panel (west of the main path and current wall), north of the three trees growing there, and south of the path that runs towards the mall.

This spot will allow easy access to electricity hookup, good sight lines to the playground and wading pool, and sufficient distance from neighbouring houses.

I will finalize drawings and forward them shortly.

Looking forward to it!

From Sandy Straw to All, June 28, 2006

Thanks Georgie Peter pls call me re site revisions to ensure we are on the same page Thanks everyone

From Peter Leiss to Georgie Donais, June 28, 2006

We will need to meet on site to review the "New" site. We will also need a detailed plan of the new site. Could we meet on this this week?

From Georgie Donais June 28, 2006

For sure I can meet this week to review the new site; it would be great to get those site surveys rolling. I'm around tomorrow (Thursday) afternoon and most of Friday.

Once the survey is done and the proposed site is approved, I can finalize the drawings and can get them to you asap.

From Peter Leiss June 28 2006

Tomorrow afternoon would be good. We need a detailed site plan prior to approval. I will talk to you tomrrow regarding this. Let me know what time is good for you.

Response from Jutta Mason, June 28 2006

I'm hoping that what you mean by a detailed plan of the site is Tom Feeney and Dan MacLeod running their sensors over the spot to make sure there are no pipes where the foundation will be. This would take them only about 10 minutes plus travel time, and I hope they can join the meeting on Thursday or Friday, and bring along their sensors, so the work can begin.

Response from Peter Leiss, June 29 2006

Thanks for your email. As we discussed at our site meeting we would need a detailed site plan, maintenance agreements, confirmation of community support and approval from other departments before approval can be given for this project. Once those items are in place a Parks Access Agreement would be required.

In principal we all want this to go ahead but we to ensure that this goes ahead with all the required approvals. We would also require utilities locates done. I have arranged with Tom to do his locates and with On1 Call for all of the other utilities located.

I know that this will likely mean your start date of July 3rd will have to be delayed however you must appreciate that all projects require proper approvals prior to any work commencing.

Response from Jutta Mason June 29 2006

Thank you, Peter, for outlining the City's process.

Sadly, if the start date is delayed longer than another week, the project will get into difficulty because the main resource -- the sweat equity of park friends -- is primarily available during the summer holidays. Since the site meeting was almost a month ago and there was little movement since then from your side, I'm hoping that you will now put this project at the top of your list.

I think it is highly unlikely that this project would ultimately be turned down by the City, since it's a low-risk project that has been under discussion with Parks and Rec management for almost a year, that comes almost fully-funded by other City funding sources, and that fulfils so many of the City's environmental objectives -- as well as the decades-long park user request for a toilet closer to the playground.

So any delays will be solely for the needs of the bureaucracy. That would make an interesting case for public discussion, but it would not really be fun for anyone involved.

That's why I'm hoping that all remaining problems will be ironed out within days rather than weeks or months, and Georgie's considerable talents will get the go-ahead. The City is so lucky to have this initiative from outside, I do hope it's not squandered.

I also hope that the City will contribute sand and gravel again.

Response from Sandy Straw June 29 2006

Just to be clear Peter could not move on the stake outs till the final site was selected. Georgie advised she had made some revisions to the site we first looked at so when Peter has the final site and foot print we can move along quite quickly. It is my expectation we will be well on our way and completed by summers end given all the great assistance you have gathered. I will try and get by to lend a hand myself

Keep in touch

Response from Peter Leiss, June 29

I would anticipate that we could have the Utility locates done early next week. To be fair the location of this project has been moved and I was only notified this week. I responded to this as soon as I became aware and will be meeting with Georgie today. I have also arranged for our internal locates to be done. These should be done today.

Comments from Georgie Donais after a site meeting with Peter Leiss, June 29, 2006

If I am to understand this correctly, anyone who is donating material that needs transportation into the park (paving stones, concrete, clay) will be required provide proof of liability rider on their vehicle insurance before entering. As a project like this happens because of tremendous goodwill on behalf of people donating their time and materials, I fear that such a requirement will immediately dry up the flow of materials, and goodwill. Since most of the material used in this project is donated, something like this could stop the project in its tracks. I would like to see if there is any other option so that we can avoid this situation.

Approval from other departments and park access agreement: What kind of time line can we expect with these?

In terms of my lead time needed, it may take weeks for me to source the materials required, and the toilet system also takes several weeks to arrive after it's ordered and paid for. Because the time line is now compressed to the point that I will be doing all of this at the same time as working on site, I am really hoping that we can simplify the above processes as much as possible.

I am getting more and more concerned that building season is passing us by; volunteers are now in the park, and we are missing the chance to make use of their skills. Ideally, we would have the foundation done and be ready for volunteers to be involved at this point, but being able to get shovels into the ground in the next week would still give us a chance to stay on track and get the project done by summer's end.

E-mail to Sandy Straw from Jutta Mason, June 29, 2006

If I understood Georgie right, at the site meeting this afternoon Peter Leiss told her she needs extra insurance and she needs to sign an agreement that she will maintain the toilet. Good heavens!!!!

Georgie has raised funds and done research to add value to the park. This is a joint City/park friends project, and the toilet will no doubt be cleaned by the rec staff. Local 79 Rec staff already maintain the main washrooms in the park (more people use the rink house washrooms than the field house washrooms, and no Local 416 caretaker has ever been assigned to clean them). So the rec staff will add composting-toilet cleaning to their duties, since they regard a playground toilet as an important element in the park facilities.

It seems to me there is a fairly major difference in philosophy operating here. If park friends want to add value to the park, they need to be nurtured. So far, the 3-1-1 list does not indicate very much nurturing.

Could we have a meeting with you, Georgie, Mayssan, and Peter on site tomorrow, to start over? I think the things that are good to remember are:

1. the City is being given a gift of research, fund-raising, and labour

2. park staff and park friends are used to working together very successfully, and the basis of the work so far has been more handshake than bureaucracy -- let's keep it in that direction

3. the project is environmentally progressive

4. if the toilet doesn't perform here as it does in national parks and on highways, it can be removed pretty easily, so it's low-risk.

I hope we can start a new thread with this.

Letter to City Councillor Adam Giambrone from Jutta Mason, June 30 2006

Please help us with this problem: it seems that the bureaucratic obstacles to Georgie Donais' composting toilet project are putting the whole project at risk. Georgie has got a private donation of a national-parks-style composting toilet, plus funding for a sculptural cob housing for the toilet. The parks supervisor was not available to move this along in June, and yesterday he gave Georgie a list of obstacles that will make it impossible for her to do her work in time for the project to succeed.

After the City ignored requests, for many years now, to put a toilet near the much-used Dufferin Grove playground, Georgie is handing them an excellent, well-planned solution, at almost no cost to the City. If this project is now subverted by the City, that would be very unfortunate.

Please help out here.

From Jutta Mason to Georgie Donais, June 30 2006

I've also left phone messages with Sandy, with her assistant, and with Councillor Giambrone. Let's see how this goes.

Frome Peter Leiss to Georgie Donais, June 30, 2006

You have captured the aspects of the meeting with the exception of the insurance issue.

What I indicated to you was that a Parks Access Agreement would be required. The Parks Access Agreement requires insurance liability of $2,000,000.00 with the City named as per the attached. This is required once only not for each individual. As I explained yesterday this is not difficult but is required for liability purposes. The Parks access agreement can be issued quickly once proof of insurance is supplied.

Community support:

It would be useful to have minutes and attendance records of the meeting to confirm that there is support for this project. In the alternative a survey of the community indicating support would be sufficient.

Other Approvals should not be a major issue as there is general support for the project. Once the location(s) are clarified we would arrange for the other departments to raise any issues and give approval.

I hope this clarifies any outstanding issues.

Response to Jutta Mason from Sandy Straw, June 30, 2006, cc'd to Georgie, Tino, Kelvin Seouw (manager of recreation), Don Boyle (director of Recreation), Peter Leiss, Paul Ronan (director of Parks)

Just to be clear once more...

We have been meeting with Georgie et al and from my perspective things are going well. In our initial meetings both Peter and I indicated and Georgie and Jutta agreed that we would need to set up an agreement as to who would do what with respect to the operation of this unique project. this is to be done between Georgie Jutta Peter and Tino and is to be completed some time before the unit is operational As for the site drawings that are required in order to get the stake outs in the right place...this is not a new item but rather one that must be done for safety and liability reasons as everyone is aware Peter has made great strides in expediting this process.

Once the stake outs are completed we need to all get on with building the project. A special thanks to Jutta for arranging al that.

This is a unique project that I hope will lead to future expansion into other parks.

From Jutta Mason to Sandy Straw, after a telephone conversation June 30 2006

Thanks so much for the reassuring conversation -- I talked to Georgie and she was relieved. I also talked to Tom Feeney about another matter and he hadn't realized that the stakeout for the toilet was needed today (there was a mix-up),

But now that it's clear, Tom says he'll be at the park with Dan Macleod after 12.30 when Georgie will be at the park too. So she can show them the exact location. And we can ask him what he knows about external power/plumbing into the park. Hopefully Georgie can now concentrate on getting this nifty project done -- lots of work but should be fun.

Clarification from Sandy Straw, June 30 2006, cc'd to all recipients above plus City Councillor Adam Giambrone, Kevin Beaulieu (City councillor Giambrone's assistant), Doug Muir (supervisor of Parks capital projects), Tom Feeney (supervisor of parks plumbing)

So everyone all knows the same info:

1. This is a joint partnership project with PFR so we are all good with that

2. Peter Tino Georgie etc will define the agreement before the project is operational and it will be signed off

3. Peter will assist site plan drawing for other than Tom Feeney & Doug as we MUST have the full stake out

All should be just fine with this now

Stakeout report (internal), forwarded by Georgie Donais, June 30 2006
Attached is a copy of the stakeout report completed by Tom Feeney (plumbing) and Dan MacLeod(electrical) this afternoon, showing that the site is clear of any plumbing or electrical obstacles. 1 Call will be doing their survey early next week, I believe.

From Jutta Mason to Georgie, July 1, 2006

If I remember right, Sandy told me on the phone there would be no need for extra insurance nor an access agreement, hence her point that "this is a joint partnership with PFR so we are all good with that."

From Jutta Mason to Kevin Beaulieu, assistant to Councillor Adam Giambrone, July 1 2006

thanks for your attention to this yesterday. It helped. Sandy seems to have straightened it out, cross our fingers.

And then at 12.30, the plumbing and electrical foremen came to do the stakeout, and they were super nice and helpful to Georgie. The Trades have been our heroes. (You should know that the City plumber numbers are down to 4 in Parks and 3 in Property, to fix what's broken, improve what doesn't work well, do stakeouts, etc. Mayor Miller's "Clean and Beautiful" needs Trades too! Election issue)

Georgie was in recovery yesterday afternoon, back from the brink of considering this impossible. But as far as I know, Sandy agrees that this is a JOINT friends/PF&R project and therefore Georgie will not have to add more crossing of t's and dotting of i's to her own considerable workload of making this playground toilet happen.

Dufferin Grove compost toilet (pdf)

Phoenix toilet guide (pdf)

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