Public Commons

Part of Municipal Strike 2009

July 15, 2009, 26 e-mails

E. G. wrote:

I did have much more sympathy before. The strike is dragging on too long. I wish they'd find a way to settle already.

Think the negotiators are being fair? The mayor seems to be making concessions. Though people direct rage at him, the negotiations are still stalled.

Personally, I don't think sick days should be banked. If you haven't used your sick days after a year or 10, consider that to be a blessing. I understand that some people get to bank them and it isn't fair. Some people have expense accounts, does that mean we all need them. (It would be nice!)

Right now I am angry because of what is happening to city kids. It is roughest on the most vulnerable citizens. Kids that wait all year for city camps and hanging out at the community centres are being used here. Rich kids don't depend on city pools and parks as much, many have access to other facilities. The kids that saved pennies for centreville season's passes are heartbroken. Many of my friends that condos have private pools and waste collection. They don't even notice the strike is on. My pals that live on wards island are having a hard time getting groceries over there.

These services are essential. In my home, we're keeping our garbage beside the house and thinking about the waste we generate and how to reduce. Whether our homes or parks become temporary dumps, or whether we move our trash to the dump, I don't know if that constitutes as picket line crossing. Our inconvenience or suffering is not being measured.

B. L. wrote:

Well said, E.

Kids get ONE shot at being 9 years old or 10 or 7 or whatever. Each summer of childhood is a magical time and it is being taken away from our most vulnerable children who need it the most. Enough already. The City's last offer looked pretty good to me: modest wage increases, no changes to seniority, etc. If banking sick days is the line in the sand, then I am with the kids who should be playing in that sand.

C. and S. wrote:

No offense to children everywhere (mine included) but I think a person being able to collect a steady income while suffering from a serious illness is more important than a child missing a few weeks of summer camp. Sure, my kids were bummed about not going to camp, but they're still having a grand old time doing "nothing". Yes, they watch T.V and go on the computer, but they also hang out with their neighbourhood pals, choreograph elaborate dance routines to Hannah Montana (ugh), have fierce rummoli tournaments with their buddies and stage mildly offensive plays in the backyard. They'll get no sympathy from me, the freeloading monsters. ;)

B. K. wrote:

The city never intended for people to not be able to take the time when suffering from serious illnesses. The new deal offered is just that - to cover it. I think if anyone is presently owed for sick days, the city should pay it all out now, have done with it and then move on to the disability coverage they presently propose. My gripe is that people are saving it for retirement, where they can cash out 6 months pay.

Sick days were for those who needed it. If you are sick and you use the days, why must you suffer for it later and not get what those who are healthy are cashing out? I say, workers who are sick are sick period. If you're sick past a few flu days then a doctor's note gets you all the time you need. No questions no penaltie. That's fair.

I think when it was first conceived of, it was to make up for the lack in pay issues. In that case, people who would become seriously ill over the next years did not see a dime of that deal. That was not fair.

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C. wrote:

I thought about this before deciding to set up a collection.

The main problem for me was the green bin stuff (already contaminated with cooked food, dairy, etc. which can't go in a backyard composter). We already had maggots, and I was running out of room to put stuff, where raccoons and rats can't get to it. My options were to dump this illegally; bring it to a dump site set up by the city (which is essentially picket-crossing and does the same thing as hiring someone else to do it); or to just let it sit and rot.

I think there is already enough garbage everywhere to keep the pressure on the City to end this strike. Anyway, as Erella pointed out, there are more good reasons for the strike to end than the piles of garbage.

I also have a problem with waste that could have been recycled dumped in landfill, so when Amanda posted about a place that sorts and separates out the recyclables, I made the decision to hire them.

Am I also strike-breaking if I send my kids to a privately-run camp because the Parks & Rec camp was cancelled?

I support the workers. I wonder what they are doing with their garbage?

M. C. wrote:

I am not uncomfortable with this list being used to discuss garbage pickups in the least. I think that we are a broad community and it should not be assumed we all hold the same views on political issues. This list is to discuss and share information and announcements about things relevant to community members - if you don't want to participate in a garbage pick-up for your own personal reasons, by all means, don't. Respectfully

P. wrote:

I support the workers. I wonder what they are doing with their garbage?

The 37% or so who don't live in our city don't have to worry about it, but that's good question

M. E. wrote:

I wonder is that 37% is holding their garbage in solidarity with those who live in the city :-).

S. E. wrote:

Just be aware that the people who are doing it need a provincial license and need to be insured. this is to insure no illegal dumping and they meet safety standards. there are people out there who are doing it without the proper paper work and who knows what they are doing with your waste. Many legit garbage haulers are losing business by people doing it. So please check.

C. wrote:

Yes, I agree. That's why I went with the company I did: http://www.tuffrecycling.com. Licensed by the Ministry of the Environment.

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Councillor Adam Giambrone

Dear Residents,

I am writing to inform you that the City of Toronto will be opening a temporary garbage drop-off site at Campbell Park in our community, effective tomorrow, July 16th, 2009.

Campbell Park is located one block south of Dupont, one block east of Symington. This temporary drop-off site is being opened at this time because other drop-off sites are now full. This site will be open for residents to make drop-offs between 7 a.m.and 7 p.m., seven days a week. The Campbell Park site will only stay open until it has reached a safe capacity, as determined by the Medical Officer of Health. This site will be located on a hard concrete surface within the outdoor skating rink area at the park, which will help ensure that this site is contained and can be easily cleaned once the labour disruption has ended.

I realize this news is upsetting to local residents, particularly those in the immediate vicinity of this site. Let me be clear that I do not want to see, nor does anyone want to see, temporary garbage drop-off sites open up in our local parks. I have discussed your concerns about having one of these temporary sites in our neighbourhood with senior management. However, the current labour disruption has created extraordinary circumstances and these temporary sites are necessary to contain the garbage until the labour disruption is over and to ensure that proper health precautions can be taken to protect the public. The alternative would be for more and more garbage to build up in front of our homes, on our streets, in our laneways, and our other public spaces, with no possibility of ensuring pest control measures are taken, or any other public health precautions.

As most of you know, the City has now opened temporary drop-off sites like this one at a number of locations around the city for the duration of the labour disruption. All these sites, including at Campbell, have received approval from the provincial Ministry of the Environment for use as temporary garbage storage sites. Inspectors from Toronto Public Health monitor the sites on a daily basis. The locations will also be provided with professional pest and odour controls.

Pest control includes spraying and traps. The chemical in the spray is the same one used in shampoos to treat head lice and is half the concentration found in the shampoo. The sprays are quick-drying and are broken down by exposure to sunlight. The spray is applied directly to the garbage on site and there is minimal drifting of the spray. The bait in the traps is secured in locked, anchored and tamper-proof stations.

Toronto Public Health, Solid Waste Management and the pest control company are ensuring pest control measures are applied as safely as possible to protect the health of residents and pets. More information on the measures being use for pest control is available on the City's website at http://www.toronto.ca/labour-relations/pesticide-odour-control.htm.

When bringing waste to any drop-off site, the public should combine Green Bin materials with other garbage and ensure it is double-bagged and securely tied. Residents can also help elderly and disabled neighbours by offering to take their garbage to a drop-off site.

I appreciate the public's continued patience during this labour disruption. It has been an extremely difficult situation for everyone. Negotiations between the City and the two unions are continuing daily and are making progress. I hope that the situation will soon be resolved fairly for all parties and that the City services our community counts on can resume.

For any questions you may have, please do not hesitate to contact my office at 416-392-7012 or at councillor_giambrone@toronto.ca. My staff and I are working everyday during the labour disruption and will be happy to assist you with your questions and concerns. You can also access a complete copy, updated daily, of the City of Toronto Contingency Plan during the labour disruption at http://www.toronto.ca/labour-relations.

Yours truly,

Adam Giambrone

J. M. wrote:

Letters, hugs, explanations and the like don't change the fact that I can no longer bring my son to play at Campbell Park, his favourite playground. The playground is directly beside the new garbage dump.

We get six months of park weather at best in this city, and THIS SUCKS.

J. F. wrote:

J., don't give up, please join us, friends of Campbell Park and friends of Christie pits as we protest the fact that Campbell has been chosen as a garbage dump, we aremeeting at Campbell park at 5:00PM tomorrow, we have already had good coverage from media and are aware of the protest tomorrow. The location of the garbage dump is to close to the children play ground and homes. Parents of the Toronto Eagle Soccer association are also very upset, after spending money on arrigation. The park is a very well used park with hundreds of Children a week using this park and will are not going to make it a dump. SHAME ON YOU, Adam and Mayor Miller. Just remember Fall of 2010, when the city elections comes around. What wrong with using the old bus station site on Lansdowne or the Pay Parking lots or schools, don't take parks away from the children. You still have time to close this site and put it else where.

C. G. wrote:

We've lost Christie Pits, Eglinton Flats, Earlscourt and now Campbell. I have two kids in the Toronto Eagles Soccer club and we were to have a tournament in a week and half at Campbell.

I have not yet used a temporary garbage site to throw away my trash. Please stop giving Torontonians this option. I do not, nor do my neighbours have garbage piling up in front of our houses. We are storing it or sending it to our families outside of the GTA.

Enough with the garbage sites in our parks. They should never have been an option in the first place. Why weren't private companies approached to use their parking facilities for dumps? Just because the City of Toronto owns our parks does not give anyone the right to dispose of their trash there.

It's past time guys. Get back to the table and fix this now.

C. J. wrote:

Well said C.! Parks should never have been considered as trash sites. It's horrific.

S. wrote:

Why are people being instructed to bring non green-bin garbage to these drop-off sites? Surely only green-bin material presents a health hazard when stored in their homes?

I understand that people may have limited resources when it comes to storing organic material, but if they could at least store the non-organics we could save *some* of the parks from being turned into dump sites.

C. G. wrote:

Excellent point Siobhan!

The Toronto Eagles have cancelled their tournament. Over thirty teams from surrounding cities have been told that our site is now a garbage dump.

Adam Giambrone met with tournament organizers yesterday and told them that he would do his best to keep Campbell clean for the tournament. The Eagles found out that Campbell had been chosen as a dump by NOW Magazine on line, not by a phone call from our councilor.

Why are Parkdale and West Toronto being used as a garbage dump? Are there not any parks in Forest Hill that could pick up the slack? Oh, right. We get it.

Thanks again for sticking up for your constituents Adam.

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A. N. wrote:

FYI, while the kids were playing soccer tonight at Campbell Park, we learned that Campbell Park, a little park just West of Lansdowne, S. of Dupont is slated to become contaminated next - startng 7:30 tomorrow. At least 8 houses are in the immediate vicinity, and a children's playground a few feet away. Global and CityTV were both onsite at 8:30p.m.. Residents are trying to organize - may be able to use some help if anyone is able to lend a hand.

B. S. wrote:

Is this the rink? Where will the people who live in these houses be relocated to?

G. R. wrote:

They are having a rally at 6:30 pm tomorrow Thursday July 16 We should support them.

H. S. wrote:

Happy Thursday FCPP,

I met local Campbell Park neighbourhood resident V., you may have caught her on the news last night.

She asked for as much help from FCPP as possible. Her questions echoed the ones we had at the beginning our Christie Pits dump site saga three weeks ago before we found our answers. And it's hard not to feel for her.

She was eager to learn about the health risks, pesticides, etc. As per her request, I seeded a wiki page for her group:

http://Torontopedia.ca/FriendsOfCampbellPark

Virginia is asking for FCPP and other Torontonians to come out today between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m. to show it's not just her street that disagrees with the park becoming a dump.

The demo was originally to start at 6:30 p.m. I suggested to them that it was too late for the 6 p.m. news so they bumped it earlier to 5 p.m. start until the dump's official closing time of 7 p.m.

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M. W. wrote:

(TheStar.com | Enough trash talk about striking workers)

HEAR! HEAR!

I miss our hard working park employees who make next to nothing but ensure skating, dancing and stilt walking in the park happen. I miss campfires and day camps and swimming in the community swimming pools. I am exhausted by the negativity I am reading.

AND I AM SICK about hearing of people describing themselves as ‘tax payers’ as opposed to ‘citizens’ ‘neighbours’ ‘friends’!

I am more than a taxpayer! And it takes more than taxpayers to make a city work.

I want my city to work!

Give CUPE a fair deal already!

P. R. wrote:

My sentiments exactly.

E. D. wrote:

And for yet another interesting perspective, Margaret Wentes articles in today’s Globe and Mail…..

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/someone-will-have-to-pay-for-a-two-tier-job-system/article1219654/

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B. S. wrote:

Sent to accesstoronto@toronto.ca (Correspondent did not sign message)

Dear "Access Toronto",

In response to the "environmental point of view" you have outlined in your reply, and the claim that there are "no liquid run-offs", I would like to draw your attention to the images I have attached.

The two images of the Christie Park ice rink were taken Sunday afternoon at 2:00 p.m. They show traces of leachate that has run off underneath the sorbent booms after Saturday's rainfall, the concrete skirt is still wet on the top and on the sides.

The image of Moss park shows one of the many spots around the perimeter of the basketball court. Here leachate is seeping out from the mulch into the grass, the margin of the contaminated spot shows grass that appears yellowed, dry and dead.

The two image from Casimir Gzowski park/Sunnyside taken Tuesday evening show two views of traces of leachate running out from the pile of garbage bags into what appears to be a storm sewer, about 50 m. from the lakeshore. Note the debris that was washed to the edge of the sewer grille.

As you know these fluids escape from the leaking bags, are transported by rainwater and also contain insecticides and disinfectants residues of the pest-control program.

I will be happy to provide you with high-resolution images and any other information that would be helpful.

Images

This is a question for Solid Waste Management

Currently the garbage in the Christie Pits Ice rink is exposed to the elements, and leachate, mixed with pesticides and disinfectants is draining out the sides of the rink, passing beneath the sorbent booms and into the ground.

As a resident living a few steps from the site I would like to propose that containment could be improved by covering the garbage with a silage tarp or similar "ADC", to keep the rainwater off, some of the smell in and the toxins better contained.

If the City would consider this helpful to mitigate the current health and environmental hazards, it is very likely we could mobilize local residents to coordinate and execute this.

I would appreciate if you could identify someone with whom this strategy could be discussed.

Access Toronto wrote:

Dear Mr. S.

The following is a response received from the Strike Command Centre: [...]

[Since this message by "Access Toronto" contains a footer that prohibits distribution, I am only summarizing the contents. B.]

Solid Waste refers to the conversation I have had with Deputy Medical Officer of Health, Dr. Shapiro, and does not see a need for a tarp covering "from an environmental point of view". Moreover they inform me that staff from the City as well as the Ministry of the Environment's Toronto District Office have confirmed this Sunday that "there are no liquid run-offs" from the Christie Pits ice rink. They thank me for my suggestion and will continue to monitor the situation.

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July 16, 2009, 6 e-mails

B. S. wrote:

FYI - Similar to what I sent to the City yesterday, but includes the response I received from the Strike Action Centre this morning. B.

Ontario Ministry of the Environment Spills Action Centre

Dear Rod Adams,

I am writing at the suggestion of the District Supervisor to inform you of instances of apparent leachate run-off from several temporary dump sites of the City of Toronto. (Images attached).

The two images of the Christie Park ice rink were taken Sunday afternoon (July 12. 2009) at 2:00 p.m. They show traces of leachate that has run off underneath the sorbent booms after Saturday's showers, the concrete skirt is wet on the top and on the sides from seeping fluids while it has dried off at adjacent spots. Christie Pits - like all ice-rink arenas - is not a watertight enclosure and while run-off is delayed, ultimately the fluids that drain from the punctured bags as well as the pesticides and disinfectants, seep out from multiple locations. Evidently, the sorbent booms are not sufficient to contain this.

The image of Moss park was taken on Monday, July 13. 2009. It shows one of many spots around the perimeter of the basketball court where effluents from the stored garbage are entering the ground. At Moss Park, garbage is piled on a thin layer of mulch; the stacks are now about 3m high on the basketball court and reach to the edge of the grass. The image shows leachate seeping from the mulch into the grass, the margin of the contaminated spot shows grass that appears yellowed, dry and dead.

The two images from Casimir Gzowski park/Sunnyside were taken Tuesday evening, July 13. 2009. They show two views of a trickle of leachate running out from the pile of garbage bags into what appears to be a storm sewer, about 50 m. from the lakeshore. Note the debris that was washed to the edge of the sewer grille, likely carried there by rainwater run-off. I believe that at least one other grille may in fact lie beneath the pile of garbage bags. If you navigate to the coordinates 43.637191, -79.460826 - or http://tinyurl.com/SunnysideGrille on a Google satellite map at the highest resolution, you will see a dark spot west of the arrow that appears to be a grille on the asphalt. As far as I could tell on Tuesday, this spot is now beneath the bags. As you know, even if that grille would have been covered with a rubber sheet, such sheets do not provide a watertight seal.

I will be happy to provide you with high-resolution images and any other information that would be helpful.

The City's Strike Command Centre has e-mailed me this morning (9:45:52 AM, no correspondent or reference indicated) in response to a similar alert I sent yesterday: - that the situation at Sunnyside is being reviewed, the catch basin will be covered and additional sorbent applied - if needed; - that there is a plan to adjust the booms and apply more sorbent at Christie Pits this morning; and - the same will be done at Moss Park.

I am not in a position to evaluate whether these measures are sufficient; however, what was done up to now, based on "regular monitoring and assessment", does not appear to have contained the problem.

As a resident living only a few steps away from the Christie Pits dump, I would appreciate to hear about your assessment of the situation and what further steps are being undertaken.

A. H. wrote:

Dear Mayor Miller,

I think it is absolutely disgusting that your government continues to designate parks as suitable places for garbage dumping. I have written to you twice already and I know many others who have written and I am really deeply disappointed that our pleas and arguments have fallen on deaf ears.

I thought you were going to be a different sort of mayor. But the way this strike has been handled from the point of view of citizens who rely on parks for so many summer activities sickens me and smacks of the same old story.

I have just heard that Campbell Park is now to receive garbage. Have you ever been to Campbell Park? The rink in this park, like the one in Christie Pits, is literally steps from people's homes and gardens. I really have to ask myself whether you would tolerate having garbage pile up and be sprayed so close to your home. I am outraged!

In addition to being a small neighbourhood park, Campbell Park is the venue for children's soccer games as is Christie Pits. But due to its much smaller size, Campbell will no longer be the location for these games as there is simply no way to set up games far enough away from the rink. I feel so sorry for the people living around that park and especially for those whose backyards are adjacent to the park.

Unless you reverse this decision, I will not be able to vote for you in future. I thought you had a great career ahead of you with political promise on the national scene. But really I do not see anything on your part to take your constituents' concerns seriously. This ploy of dumping garbage in our parks has not made me cross with the union, CUPE; rather, it has completely undermined my confidence in your administration. You have so many other options for temporary dump sites and yet you continue to disregard our concerns and dump trash in our parks. Then, you spray them with permetherin which is toxic to fish (with at least five sites on water bodies in the city that in itself is actionable) and toxic to the honey bees (again in itself actionable) and toxic to cats and other small mammals.

David, I've met you and chatted with you before. I was impressed. I really can't understand why you are refusing to take a stand here and develop an alternative strategy to contaminating the parks. Many voices have suggested municipal parking lots. What's the problem with using them?

Here was/is an opportunity to show real leadership by for example establishing a citizens' round table for temporary garbage storage. Invite some of the active citizens and community leaders who have been complaining about the problem. Many of these people have not only the passion but also the expertise to help you find a solution that works best for everyone.

I beg you to reconsider your position.

Deeply disappointed,

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B. K. wrote:

My understanding is that the sick-day arrangement was reached as a tradeoff for many years of wage freezes. Also, I see nothing scandalous about banking sick days to get (by the way, only partially and with various restrictions) what amounts to a few weeks of severance pay after performing essential, ungratifying and often physically demanding jobs for so many years. Decent severance and retirement provisions should be entrenched in law for all workers; we are sadly a long way off from that goal and a defeat for City workers in this strike will set this broader cause even further back.

Plus, as others have also pointed out, there are many more issues than sick days involved in this strike.

The City clearly went into this with the specific objective of rolling back their workers' contracts on a number of fronts. Perhaps Miller and company weren't expecting such a strong response from unionized staff. I for one am very impressed that City workers have stood their ground for so long -- despite the hostile media coverage and unfavorable political and economic climate, not to mention the hardship this creates for the workers themselves and their families.

The best way to end this strike is for the City to withdraw its package of rollbacks and negotiate a fair deal with the people who make this city work.

C. wrote:

Excellent points. And again, much more important then my daughters missing summer camp.

B. L. wrote:

"The City clearly went into this with the specific objective of rolling back their workers' contracts on a number of fronts."

Actually, that is not so clear. Other than the sick days, what are the main issues? Seniority? Nope. Working conditions? Nope. Health benefits? Nope.

The only other issue is wage increases. Perhaps you cab point out the rollbacks that the City is asking for, other than generously buying out the "sick days".

Kc. wrote:

There would be a lot less 'hostile' media coverage if the strikers themselves were not inviting it. Their behavior at the transfer stations and the dumpsites is reprehensible, not to mention illegal. Do you not think more people would be using the transfer stations instead of the parks if they did not have to face a 5 hour wait and terrible harrassment from strikers?

The story maybe a week back or so about the gentleman who was being personally harrassed and threatened at his home and had some vandalism done to his property because he is a private garbage collector was shocking to me. People on strike can use many methods to try to gain public support but gangster tactics shouldn't be among them.

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July 17, 2009, 20 e-mails

B. S. wrote:

Rod Adams | "Access Toronto"
Ontario Ministry of the Environment | City of Toronto
Spills Action Centre | Strike Command Centre

Friday, July 17. 2009

Dear Rod Adams, Dear "Access Toronto",

This is an update on yesterday's correspondence regarding apparent leachate run-off from several temporary dump sites of the City of Toronto. (Images attached).

The Strike Command Centre has informed me that more work on the booms and sorbent material would be done on Thursday morning (July 16.) No such work was done at the Christie Pits dump, where the booms lay yesterday evening as I found them last Sunday. Meanwhile leachate has pooled in the decomposing leaves outside the rink (see image) from where it will be washed into the ground/storm sewers with the next rainshower.

At Moss park, I can confirm that additional sorbent material has been applied, as announced by Strike Command Thursday morning following my alert. However, by evening, the leaking fluids had saturated the sorbent and the yellowing of the grass has increased. Note that there was no rainfall yesterday, it appears that the source of these effluents are the bags themselves, respectively whatever has pooled beneath them.

At Sunnyside, a rubber mat has been placed over the storm grille, held in place with a sandbag. I believe it is apparent from the image that no watertight seal can be expected. The question remains what the state of the grilles is that appear to be buried underneath the garbage piles.

Prophylactically, I am also alerting you to the situation at Campbell Playground. Washed out residue indicates the path the leaking fluids will be taking as they escape from the rink. There were no protections in place as of yesterday at noon.

If you need high-resolution images or any other information, just let me know.

I have not visited other sites except these four, but I have noted problems at all four sites. The forecast for today and tomorrow is for rain showers, possibly storms. I would be interested in your assessment regarding the suitability of the sites and the adequacy of the measures that are being taken, both in response to my alerts, and in response to your own monitoring.

Images

A. M. wrote:

While I'm broadly supportive of the city workers in this dispute I've lost patience with the union. Their tactics have done nothing but alienate the public and create hostility and resentment against them. They've lost the war of public opinion because of a reliance on the kind of old style labour tactics more appropriate to another era. CUPE could have had a work to rule, or rotating stoppages, instead of a full blown strike. They could have been creative with tactics, like patrolling parks and public places to prevent illegal dumping. Tactics that might have endeared them to the public rather than alienating the public.

I have also spoken to a number of union members who are very frustrated with the union and the strike, and don't feel that the strike vote (I believe less than 10% of workers voted to strike - I could be wrong) was a truly democratic process. I was told that the members had to vote in one remote location at a specific time. Now the union seems to be avoiding presenting what appears to be a reasonable offer to the members. Hard to believe that in this era of advanced technology that the largest union in Canada can't find a better way to enfranchise its membership.

My biggest worry is that strikes like this, and the recent York strike will lead to a right wing backlash. Some of us are old enough to remember Britain's summer of discontent. A wave of strikes (much more severe than what we're facing) that lead indirectly to Margaret Thatcher's election. Surely CUPE must realize that they're negotiating with the most labour friendly civic government Toronto has ever had. Our next mayor (John Tory, George Smitherman, Karen Stintz?) will be far less sympathetic than the current mayor. Civic workers will then likely face the prospect of layoffs and privatization of services.

S. E. wrote:

I am also supportive of the strike action. But am confused by a few points. Did 10 % of the workers vote to strike or did 10% show up for a stike vote. The method of determiing a strike in a union is dictataed by the guidelines in there particular constitution and bylaws. They usually endeavour to be as inclusive as possible. If members do not feel this to be a democratic system they should show up at general meetings and put motions forward to change the constitution and bylaws.

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M. M. wrote:

I was at the garbage dump protest that Jack Fava and Virginia Novak organized at Cambpell Park. I wrote about the demonstration on my blog: http://tinyurl.com/njr4gg

J. F. wrote:

Hi All, If I can just responded to M. email. There is one thing in particular that caught my eye that needs clarification. Something taken from Mike's blog and picture, see light blue.

I don't think the protesters were all that enthusiastic about this tactic.

M. I don't know how you would know this if they were into the protest or not. As many of these seniors were Italian. One of the reason why I do this and any of the other protest that I done in the past is to give those who can't always speak for themselves and that is the children and Seniors. As you know many people in ward 18 don't speak english, have literatacy issues and so forth. The people who I was with we very excited and happy to do it, but also very nervous because they never done this before, but never the less were happy to do it. Many of these seniors came to Canada many years ago and worked all there life, they would of never imagined doing this, but they did. I will agree that it was a little chaotic, but it got people taking. It was a very short notice from Adam's office. I was there to empower the people. For many this was there first time doing something like this. We will continue to protest and make noise as long as we can.

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M. M. wrote:

On Thursday evening residents who live near Campbell protested against the City's decision to use the park as a temporary dump site. It was a bit of a circus.

When I got there at 5:15pm, police and media were already on the scene. There were TV trucks with the high antennas parked on the grass next to the wading pool. There were handmade protest signs attached to the fence. There were also two wreaths by a sign that said McGuinty and Miller have "blood on your hands." I took a lot of pictures, which I still have to download.

The event was organized at the last minute by Jack Fava and Virginia Novak. This is the same pair who organized the protest two years ago against the community garden at Erwin Krickhahn park. They have also organized marches and vigils against crime. Two years ago when there was a community safety audit at Bloor and Lansdowne, 14 Division unit commander Ruth White called Jack "her hero."

Jack and Virginia were there of course but not that many other people. There was a bit of crowd, but sometimes it was hard to tell who supported the protest and who was just watching. There were a lot of neighbourhood kids, some of whom I know from the rink.

Two men from the Toronto Eagles were there to support the protest. Boys were playing their scheduled soccer games during the protest. The Eagles pointed out that they had put a lot of money into the irrigation system and thought it was unfair for the City to turn around and use the park as a dump. One of the men from the Eagles got into an argument with a police officer, but calmed down.

Himy Syed from the Friends of Christie Pits and torontopedia.ca showed up later. He took pictures and then gave an interview to a TV crew.

There were city managers wearing yellow T-shirts that had the City logo and read Customer Service. The City had a pick-up truck in the driveway that leads to the rink. It was parked next to the road. People put their garbage in the truck. When it was full, a manager drove it to the rink. By the time I left, there was quite a bit of garbage in the rink.

Just after I got to the park, Jack and a dozen followers decided to block traffic on Campbell Avenue. Police came over and told them to stop. They did. The followers weren't enthusiastic about blocking the road anyway. When they stopped a truck, they got into an argument with each other about whether or not to let it pass. They did.

Then Jack, Virginia and few other people decided to stand in front of the City pick-up truck. One woman who lives across the street got into an argument with a woman who was dropping off trash. Different people were yelling. Some were saying the first woman hit the second woman. Other people said no. The police stepped in and separated the women.

At one point Jack started attacking union members, saying they were greedy.He was responding to something a CUPE guy on picket duty said. The two got into a shouting match.

Some neighbours stood up for the union. At first Jack and the neighbours were just yelling at each other, but then they calmed down and it became more of a discussion. One man who defended the unions said he lived behind the rink. He wasn't happy about the park being used as a dump site, but said he accepted it under the circumstances. He said the best way to solve this was for the City to offer the union a fair contract.

Jack and Virginia continued to stand in front of the City truck. Sometimes they were by themselves. At other times they had supporters. There were residents standing across the street who were generally supportive. Jack and Virginia literally begged people to hold onto their garbage for an extra day. The people across the street did the same. At one point, Virginia kneeled on the pavement in front of someone who wanted to drop off garbage.

Surprisingly, some people did turn back. Jack and Virginia claim they persuaded 20 people not to leave their trash. That may be accurate. I didn't keep count, but a fair amount of people did turn back. However, most didn't. Some were apologetic, saying they had no choice. Others got angry. One guy who was provoked by comments made by the people on the other side of the street started yelling obscenities. Police told him to get back in his car. Another man said he lived next to another temporary dump and if he had to put up with it, the people on Campbell could do the same.

Vehicles were parked on both sides of the street. There were media vehicles, police vehicles, people at the park for soccer and people dropping off garbage. There was a traffic jam and a few people got angry, though nothing serious happened. One guy leaned on his horn for a while until police told him to stop.

At 7, the City closed the dump for the day. Some media stuck around to do reports. Jack told me he would be back tomorrow at 7.

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K. F. wrote:

There has been a lot of heated discussion on this list in the last few weeks and I have found myself dismayed at the anti-union sentiment, the individualistic reactionary attitudes and the general negativity and toxicity of many of the responses. Not to mention the inability of many torontonians to dela with their trash. I have also found myself grateful for the many calm and reasoned voices who have tried to navigate this complicated and tricky situation with compassion, reason and grace. I feel thankful to the many people who have taken the time to explain how we have ended up where we are and work hard for justice and respect. I also feel grateful that the moderators have put so much time trying to keep this conversation open and dynamic but not toxic. thank you all.

In my many weeks of reflecting on this strike I have come to the conclusion that 2 groups are pitched in a battle and some perspective has been lost. From all accounts, this is a conflict between the City of Toronto and the City works. This is largely true. I think that from the perspective of the city, they have no money and are practically bankrupt and may feel they have no choice. I truly think that is part of what is going on but it is hard to accept that when city councilors gave themselves a raise, and police, fire and ttc workers (mostly men I might add) all got raises.

If I were a member of CUPE 79 or 416 (the vast majority of whom are women), I would find this unacceptable. I find it unacceptable and I am not a member. Yet how can one squeeze blood from a stone? Toronto has no money. that leads to an important question Why does Toronto have no money? Well I expected David Miller to demonstrate leadership and use this financial crisis as an opportunity to rally Torontonians to push hard against our provincial government which is really the body responsible for this crisis. Now is the ideal time to build a movement and fight back against the Harris legacy of downloading services without providing cities with the financial means to pay for them. This moment could have been a beautiful one of civic activism and renewing the fight for our cities that I remember so well from the struggle against amalgamation. Instead, Miller has decided to shuck is backbone and turn against the workers; the people who help to all the grunt work to make this city great. He has played into the neo-conservative discourse of pushing back against workers and has mis-represented the issues that are on the table in this crisis. He is made no mention of the root of the problem and has not pleaded or demanded that McGuinty come clean on his promise to upload services back to the province. He made a terrible miscalculation and has burned bridges with the progressive constituency that helped to get him elected with some hope I suppose that the suburbs will appreciate him for "standing up to the unions" and the trade off will be worth it in the 2010 election. He has traded his support from progressives for potential support from right wingers and it was a dangerous calculation.

As someone who campaigned for Miller in 2003 and 2006, I feel so mad that he has never followed through with his commitment to stand up to the federal government around the waterfront. I feel mad again that he is not focusing people's outrage at this situation where it belongs: Queens Park. Instead Miller is shifting far to the right and is helping to breed anti union sentiment broadly.

I agree that the Union could have done a much better job at public relations and trying to build support with the public and will be letting my former union (I was part of CUPE for several years) know the ways in which they have strategically mis-stepped on this one and the poor job in communications will bite us all in the butt as a result.

SO I hereby declare Thursday July 23rd bring your trash to Queens Park day. Bring it at 9 am and demand that McGuinty help save our cities. Lets bring the trash where it belongs and remember who is responsible for the root of this crisis instead of beating up on the poor union members and workers who are fighting for a fair wage and decent benefits.

A. S. wrote:

I think that's a great idea

P. R. wrote:

I too support K.'s idea. And also find it very difficult hearing the trashing of the workers who are on strike. I support what Ragghu has so articulately stated. It is easy to support workers rights when it has no impact on you, much harder when it does. The workers don't want to give up what they have fought so hard over the years to gain. They also are very concerned about contracting out and job security. Can you imagine Miller doing this to policemen, politicians, firemen etc.? Miller hasn't mentioned the real culprit here which is the downloading from the provincial government. Miller has lost my vote. I wonder if this attitute of Miller's is in part due to him setting his sights on bigger political fish. In solidarity with the striking workers,

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B. K. wrote:

actually I didn't want to go that far to ask, but since someone else is asking, can we know what rollbacks the city is asking for? Or are there ANY rollbacks and what other sticking points there are? What is the disability offer the city has made?

what exactly is not fair?

B. K. wrote:

I don't know who has decided that the "standard wait" for garbage drop off is to be 15 minutes at the emergency dumps. The strikers keep referring to 15 minute guideline as if anyone who matters has made this arbitrary and unacceptable decision.

they adhere to whose instruction? the union's.

I'm just saying they hide behind this 15 minutes as if it has any weight with city dwellers waiting in line.

B. L. wrote:

Legally, the pickets have the "right" to detain you long enough to tell you why they are there. Generally, this is supposed to be a minute at most. The City has capitulated to this ridiculous 15 minute delay imposed by CUPE for some reason, but there is no basis is law for it.

If you ask me, the police should be used to enforce the law and stop pickets from impeding citizens illegally.

C. R. wrote:

The 15 minute guideline was likely set by the Ontario Superior Court as one of the terms of the injunction controlling the picketing.

R. K. wrote:

There are obviously some fundamental disagreements on this listserv about workers, unions, collective bargaining and the right to strike; about the role of government and public services; and about who should be made to bear the costs of provincial underfunding of vital public services, an increasingly regressive and dysfunctional tax regime, and, of course, the present debacle in the economy, which is not going to be set right any time soon. I welcome the discussion, while recognizing that these disagreements are unlikely to be settled here.

The City quite clearly came into the negotiation with a plan to, among other things: -- break the wage pattern that has led to settlements with other city workers (not to mention councillor pay increases); -- eliminate sickday provisions and their banking toward a severance payment upon retirement; -- obtain a series of concessions on seniority, job protections and other provisions to increase management flexibility over recruitment of part-time and non-union staff and contracting-out; -- make further inroads towards privatization and commercialization of city services.

The City was able to get away with this approach earlier in the year with its (increasingly large) non-union staff. Thankfully, it's not having such an easy time with its unionized work force. Still, it obviously made plans for a strike well in advance, and is banking on the general anti-union climate to ride the strike through to victory. That is a tremendous disappointment and setback for those of us who saw some hope for progressive and pro-worker government in Miller and the councillors on his team.

Bryan Leblanc asks for details on the rollbacks the City is demanding. In these days of the Internet, it isn't too difficult to get general information about the issues involved in the strike. You can even find many details regarding the two union local's positions on their websites:

Local 79: http://www.cupelocal79.org/ Local 416: http://tinyurl.com/nga3z3

At the same time, City workers and their union understandably do not want or feel the need to publicize every detail about their contracts and negotiating positions. I don't know how many of us out there -- whether in the public or private sector, and whether unionized or not -- would want specific details of our wages and benefits splashed all over the media; and I don't know how many of us fortunate enough to be able to negotiate such terms with our employers would want our employer to conduct these negotiations via press conference.

B. K. wrote:

How do you know: "The City quite clearly came into the negotiation with a

plan to, among other things: -- break the wage pattern that has led to settlements with other city workers (not to mention councillor pay increases); -- eliminate sickday provisions and their banking toward a severance payment upon retirement; -- obtain a series of concessions on seniority, job protections and other provisions to increase management flexibility over recruitment of part-time and non-union staff and contracting-out; -- make further inroads towards privatization and commercialization of

city services."?

Also, my brothers live in Etobicoke where the garbage is being picked up by private companies hired by the City.

This arrangement exists in many centres - jobbing out many functions- as well as many provincial government agencies.

It may not be the Utopian ideal, but the day when the governments employ every one of their employees seems to be a thing of the past.

I'm not anti union, I belong to two, but I acknowledge the need to outsource to remain viable.

A. T. wrote:

I read today that the company who we used on our street to remove garbage, TuffRecycling.com who are Ministry Approved etc....have been forced to stop collecting residential waste because they are only licensed to collect Commercial waste, and were doing this as a bit of a side-line. The owner apparently told the press he wasnt bothered he was stopped, because he has made enough money to go on a month long holiday to Europe!! oh well. My intentions were good, I just wanted rid of my waste (plus the neighbours) with a guarantee that it wouldn't be dumped in any of the temporary locations.

On a positive note, to save on compost I decided to stop using diapers on my 2-year old boy and have completely toilet trained him. My compost has halved in only 2 weeks!! :o)

still trying to be optimistic......

C. wrote:

Where did you read that? I just called to check and they said that isn't true at all and they are still doing residential pickups. There was news of another two companies that were forced to sign agreements to stop doing pickups. Was this what you were referring to?

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/07/15/10135966- sun.html]]

M. W. wrote:

Actually the police have been supporting the pickets, because the are legal pickets.

M. W. wrote:

Legal pickets (and this strike is a legal one) can hold vehicles for 30 minutes each vehicle.

Depending on where you go and when you may wait 2, 5, or 15 minutes.

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M. W. wrote:

Interesting, this globe and mail article does not appear to be about this strike at all. It quotes a number of statistics that seem pulled out of the air… she talks about all public sector employees, not just this small group of city workers, and those she refers as garbage workers.

First of all, this strike includes less than 800 garbage workers.

Many of those garbage workers are considered “part time casual” because the city lays them off for a short time each year to prevent them from being considered perm and getting access to what she calls a “gold plated” benefits plan. (At least one third of this union does not have any benefits to speak of, and no sick days and they stand to lose a lot through this strike.)

Who are “they” in this union that are making $20 an hour more than their private sector counterparts? Most of the park staff make less than $20 per hour, so perhaps she is referring to child labour somewhere where the take home is pennies a day.

I like how she has a problem with the teacher’s pension and their age of retirement. (Like that has ANYTHING to do with this strike). However, I would like to point out those fantastic pensions are DEFERRED WAGES. The teachers also control their own pension plan and invest it very well. Perhaps the companies that stole their employees pensions and invested them badly have brought down the average pension for ‘private sector’ workers and increased their retirement age. By all means, lets encourage the city to behave more like those companies.

Or we could all work for fair and healthy contracts and decent work places.